Please state facts, not falsehoods about what the Bible does or does not say. Find a way to live out the love of Christ. If people are pointing to the Son who died for our sins that we deserved, so that we might be right before God (2 Cor 5:21), then there is no issue. Another form of self-justification is that my sin is really not sin and therefore I do not need to confess and repent of my sin and take it to the cross. The Body of Christ should do better than this! Even if the person you have concerns about isnt known to you personally (a well-known identity like Jen, for example), a private message or email is a far more respectful (and therefore, more effective) means of exchanging views. Paul wrote about some people who were going to temple orgies in Corinth. But we cant go to the other extreme and do nothing about wayward leaders. To us, clearly. Saying sin is wrong is not hate speech. This is not about a personal sin or a personal doubt, this is about her clear rejection of an eternal truth. But you miss the third part of Jesus statement regarding how to deal with the one who sins against you. Yes, an email, phone call, face-to-face communication is the first step, and inviting third parties (two or three witnesses) is the second step. If so, arent you being terribly arrogant to say that you can have that but others cant? Science maybe? But from the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. High profile people in high profile ministries invite both high profile praise and high profile criticism, with no accountability on the part of those meting out the criticism. Get Started Join us Sundays at 10:30am. Burnt toast actually. Is that a strict standard? I begged these people to stop and shared with them how it was affecting me and my staff. It isnt love to just not disagree with someone. People often say things are facts based only on their opinions and interpretations but saying theyre absolute eternal truths? 7:30 pm Primary Purpose Group - Online Only. Just my two cents. And God HATES divorce. both with the questions validity and the proper response. Ah, yes. So I ask, is not healthy religion a figment of the imagination? Many of my charismatic and Pentecostal friends speak in tongues (some call it a prayer language) and swear by it. both the shelter and the solitude of silence with the eloquence of Colm Bairad's gently captivating Irish . And in a case where these well-known teachers, who are influencers of millions of the church, appear to err in their teaching, is it appropriate for those familiar with them to call them to repentance publicly? Jesus spent most of his time hanging out with sinners, as should we. See 9 photos and 1 tip from 46 visitors to Austin New Church. And maybe that is good. I know that I was matching hyperbole with hyperbole. Id rather be wrong in affirming my friends who are LGBT than have to attend their funerals because they killed themselves due to the hateful type of rhetoric youve put out here. But He didnt. We wont argue anyone into Kingdom of God. Whats funny to me is, Christians like to hold up Jews as the ultimate legalists, but Ive been getting to know some Jews and theyre not, at all. ANY sex outside of that is morally wrong in Gods eyes. I encourage the author and those who agree with the author to please consider this line with regard to love and grace for people with a conservative point-of-view. conceived & written by Patrick Hillcinematography & editing by Dave and Sarah Kemper of Cloud Craft Studiosproduced by ANC Creativesfeaturing Patrick Hill, S A journey through ANC's first in-house art gallery, "Anticipating What Already Is." Hatmaker was the lead pastor of the church before resigning on Friday afternoon after admitting that he had an affair with another man while married to his wife (who is also openly gay). Start treating your sisters and brothers like sisters and brothers. This is a quote from the article. I know it is hard to wrap your mind around it, but they took a procedural item and made it into a essential doctrine. If you have the right to ask me hard questions, dont I have the right to ask some of you?, Beautiful, Mike. Maybe youre PCA, and if so, I would ask you how you justify the idea of salvation through grace alone when verses like Matthew 7:21, Romans 2:13, and James 2:24 show very clearly that works are a part of it. He just wasnt talking about that. But I dont wish on my worst enemy the pain that I, my family, Rob Bell, McLaren, or Jen Hatmaker have gone through. If she is teaching this heresy publicly, calling her out publicly is not only appropriate but necessary. While people are free to express themselves many ways sexually, to do so outside of the marriage bed is against the message of Jesus. Sunday, May 28, 2022 Ascension Day. ConcernedMeasuring.Locating 1:1-2. Do you know anyone whos a part of the Churches of Christ? Do you believe that the earth was created in six days? Jesus didnt talk about sexually abusing children. So I enjoy beer, whisky, and alcohol; but have never been drunk a day in my life (dont know what it even feels like to be drunk). So many people do want to be christians because so ofter christians are brutal to one another. Jesus was not harsh with sinners; His only harsh words were for wayward religious leaders. http://bible.com/114/mrk.10.6-9.nkjv. A public figure often needs to be called publicly. Those old theologians were big on grace and were vehement defenders of the idea that we acquire salvation by Gods grace alone, not by works (I agree with this). Healthy religion gives confidence to embrace the stranger and insights that are available from those with a different experience of life. That being said, the rise of the celebrity Christian/social commentator/preacher seems to exacerbate many of the issues Mike draws attention to. Man, the irony. Jesus does say if you love me you will keep my commands. We cant receive grace from something we dont actually believe is a sin. All of scripture is God breathed. They believe that we have free willthat we choose God. His standard is unflinching. It never has. He chased people out with a whip and turned over the tables of the money changers. By saying homosexual practice is not sin, it is a form of self-justification rather than Jesus-justification. This is the right thing according to Matthew 18, a teaching emphasized in the intentional-community churches Ive been part of since reaching adulthood but not in the evangelical ones I grew up with. Stop making excuses. i agree completely. Where do you get that any sex outside your strict standard is disapproved of by God? Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. The same thing happened to Vicky Beeching, here in the U.K (although a lot of her ministry was in the states so she was battered from The parts he talks about as being lawful is that a marriage bond is sacred, and that no one should be able to break that bond unless there is infidelity. You may think Im saying all this to be divisive or undermine Scripture. I do not support condescension, intentional divisiveness or mean spirited attacks. 20,804 Hoda Kotb's lengthy 'Today' show absence finally explained My friend Brett Trapp pointed out several things that we have no unity on . If you work on the Sabbath, how do you justify that? 1BN-General. We see thru a glass darkly, weve all got mud in our eyes.that only Jesus can remove. Even if he didnt mention the sin in specific cases in order to call the person out of a bad image of themselves into an image of someone who is loved, he still didnt condone sin and redefine what sin was. You sound like someone born of self intellect masked in biblical references.you dont sound like Jesus, you sound like a Pharisee, overeducated and pious. Jesus reprimanded the woman at the well. I think its important, when considering Matt 18s instruction, to keep in mind how Jesus treated gentiles and tax collectors. Next up: ad hominen attacks on anyone that considers LGBT lifestyles anathema to a faith-driven life. Who are you to decide that gay people need to live lonely lives.who cant even have a friend of the same sex because, heaven forbid, they might fall in love with them? Pics by Pauly Littrell) Call off the attack dogs. Original post: The Church is judgmentally and systematically abusing people within the Church for issues that are not central to the Gospel this needs to stop! MaintainingContaining IN-PERSON | 2701 S Lamar Blvd, Austin, TX 78704 ONLINE | Facebook or YouTube I'M NEW HERE. Good question. Seriously. http://bible.com/114/1co.5.11-13.nkjv, Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. But we have GRACE. Post-Bulletin, Austin MN. Were elders allowed to fulfill their roles as decision makers for ANC as outlined in Acts 15:1-2, or were those who disagreed with the change in position asked or encouraged to leave? 1:02. People read Frank Schaffer! I dont think there is a hard and fast rule on this. Just playin devils advocate here a bit, but when we say Jesus didnt speak to homosexuality, are we seriously suggesting he didnt comment on sexuality itself as it stood in the Scriptural tradition? 144 views, 5 likes, 6 loves, 13 comments, 0 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Austin New Church: ANC 02-26-2023 Sunday Live Service Holly, let me guess: Youre heterosexual and married or in a relationship with a manmaybe you have kids. Sinful mankind, including Gospel-loving movements of the past, have done this time and again. That includes naming the ones doing the teaching. And it wasnt me but Jesus who said to lust in the heart is adultery, to hate in the heart is murder. It is sad. It has left me confused and weary. It will open us up to the new: while religion continues to be a profoundly important vehicle for personal and community identity it also embraces a humility borne of the awareness that our knowledge is partial we see through a glass only darkly. Jen Hatmaker and her husband, Brandon, pastor Austin New Church in Texas. But this, I humbly submit as just my opinion. And theyre not always wrong. If Jen Hatmaker was silent on the issue and started loving on homosexuals, nobody would say anything. This is a sobering appeal and I pray that yes, this discourse does save life and redeem souls from death. Thats down to the individual I guess if they can handle it without wanting to be with that person romantically. She doesnt owe you a personal response. Actually it is addressed in much of scripture. It was put out publicly by the husband I think on their Facebook page that they felt they were led to believe that as long as a homosexual couple are faithful to one another the its fine just like a normal marriage. This teacher is teaching that homosexual sin can be justified through theological self-justification rather than through repentance and forgiveness through the cross. We cant say its ok because peoples feelings might be hurt. TAKE INITIATIVE. Or the only one you care about? These people should NOT be leaders in teaching other Christians. In the meantime, lets pray for our sister currently in the crosshairs of unhealthy religion, knowing that at any time it could be you or me who draws the ire of her detractors. Yours just ignoring the facts otherwise. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. We have to look at all the Bible to draw our conclusions. Shes a blogger. NO sin is okay with God, from the way you lust in your mind about someone walking by you down the street or when you utter even the smallest curse against someone in your mind (Jesus said those crimes are adultery and murder, respectively). Sadly, this is what happens when religious communities become obsessed with building walls to exclude others. Self justification can take many forms. The views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent the official views of Morling College or its affiliates and partners. I find many here lining up in a militaristic way about their faith. Established in 2008. ANC: Austin New Church, Hatmakers' church in Austin FMCUSA: the Free Methodist Church- USA, which ANC was affiliated with and financially sustained by since its inception JH: Jen Hatmaker, member of Austin New Church (ANC), occasional preacher, no official leadership position stated BH: Brandon Hatmaker, founding pastor and elder at ANC If he listens to you, you have regained your brother. Seems to me if the person in question is public about their position then the response to that position may be public too. Love, Garry. I will simply READ MY BIBLE. These are conversations for Christians about Christian doctrine, also. So, what does healthy religion look like? ChatGPT has got some preachers spooked. Its not what you say but when and how you communicate it. only God can judge. you dont get to decide what sin is, whether public or private. And if we encourage people to treat each other as brothers and sisters- simply look at any of the latest sitcoms or a series on Amazon or Netflix brothers and sisters divide, manipulate, lie, hurt and outwit each other. To understand Paul you *must* read Romans 1 and 2 as a single argument; after all, Romans 2 begins with Therefore. One more question to you all who point fingers to those whose sin ( your word) is public, I want to ask- where is your contrition for shaming others? I think we should go one layer deeper, where is the accountability of the Jens and the Robs? If he refuses to listen to the church, treat him like a Gentile or a tax collector. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Austin Miniatures Western Hotel Saloon 2 story Wild West Cowboys Conte Marx TSSD at the best online prices at eBay! Its Biblical. I think most Christians would agree with that. Oscar nominee Austin Butler and model girlfriend Kaia Gerber were "making out all night" at W Magazine's annual "Best Performances" party over the weekend, spies told Page Six . When superstar Christians promote that agenda, in many peoples minds, it just increases the tendency towards this syncretism and there is genuine concern. Loving your neighbor as yourself requires you to have love in your heart in the first place. And Im not suggesting that religious leaders shouldnt debate and discuss their concerns when members (or fellow leaders) appear to contradict or challenge these beliefs. Maybe. He just hates sin. His Awareness Some people just have a vile hatred of all things Old Testament. focusing on OUR being : In January of 2018, after coming under the . But what if your kid asks if he can kill the neighbors punk kid because God did it. Will you tell your child he cant do that? JM changes his Facebook information to relay that he is no longer employed by the Free Methodist Church. Maybe he chased them with a whip in love, perhaps? And discribes a very good process. Wonder why the majority of the Christian Machine disdains you? And it has been confusing and a massive struggle to say the least. HeckJESUS said it. Now we all sin, its truee, and we should be inclusive. the spirit of the world is dark, indeed. And Jesus in Matthew 19:4-5? So hopefully nobody interprets my misgivings to this article as being a religious bigot. Why because no where in the Bible does it say it is okay. It was based on knowing I had no hope and believing Jesus was empowered and pleased to offer me new life, hope and fellowship with God. Its Farewell, Jen Hatmaker, Offender #11328. ANC: Austin New Church, Hatmakers church in Austin Let them be consumed by it. Does JH submit to the elders of ANC, or do the elders of ANC submit to JH? just like other sins being addressed-not just that one. Too many Christians want to make the OT is inerrant and infallible, except for cheeseburgers, beards, and pork chops. Wednesday. The building was originally Faith United Methodist Church since 1968 and in January of . Please let me clarify something I just wrote above: Yes, homosexuals as well as anyone else should be allowed-ENCOURAGED-to attend church for the reasons above-to repent and get help, whatever the sin is, not just homosexuality. Austin Miniatures Western Hotel Saloon 2 story Wild West Cowboys . After three years of intensive study, reading the Bible in its original languages, going deep into study with people of Faith on all sides of the issue.I came to see that the Bible didnt always say what I thought it did (or wanted it to). After all, its one of the Ten Commandments. Gal. What we call Christianity is not what I have experienced in China, the Middle East, etc Those fellow believers faith cost them something, while much of our experience here in America is a raw form of spiritual narcissism. You might as well say two people chatting over coffee should be held to a higher standard. Ive found that people who define things outside of the bigger community of the global Church, through the centuries, have too narrow opinions on Jesus and Pauls teachings. Get the bloodlust out of your system, people. Its just an error. He poignantly ends the chapter with this true statement, p 263: the only truly biblical stance on homosexuality is limited to rejecting male homosexual sex with the same vehemence as, for example, clothing made from wool and linen mixtures, and to remaining open minded about everything else. Its a difficult place to beI feel like Im losing my home. Do you keep Saturdays holy? Romans 1 is very very clear. Our campus is more than just a building where we gather on Sundays. Yet, I find myself sobbing in my back yard as I listen, hoping no one hears . Theological self-justification and teaching theological self-justification for what God views in truth as sin is keeping people to falling into the grace of God, and rather falling into self-justification. Its tiring to read all these comments urging us to root out heresy (as if Jen Hatmaker is a heretic). 'Art forms such as spoken word, poetry, drama, dance or even instrumental music have large been relegated to a rare holiday service if at all . However, I am 100% sure its not sin, so I feel like I am doing nothing wrong and am not presenting an affront to the gospel. Your email address will not be published. At some point the quantity and quality of ex-evangelicals will outweigh the insiders, and evangelicalism will struggle surely supporting Trump is against its original principles and a sign of its death. 5/22/22 ANC 5-22-2022 Sunday Live Service ANC 5-22-2022 Sunday Live Service. As I said before, EVERYONE deserves respect and for people to be treated bad by parents or anyone else is just wrong-that is not Christian either. A song, actually. I am never for calling names but when false teachings arise they must be dealt with. Brett Trap has it going on. This is the bottom line: Jen Hatmaker and her husband said that they had a revelation from God after much prayer that basically the story of Adam and Eve and the pattern of marriage also pertains to homosexual marriage! Jesus didnt die for the sins of the world so we could allow people to keep sinning. Does the pushing some people out of Gods Grace, shaming especially the most historically vulnerable, BRING people to faith, into a relationship with the Loving God? Removing our measures; esp comparable measures to others 15 If your brother sins, go and show him his fault when the two of you are alone. The more I read the bible and the less I listen to others takes on it, the more I see how many people believe in manmade ideas. Jen is the author of many books and Bible studies, including Interrupted, 7, and Girl Talk. This is a core gospel issue. I had never really heard of Hatmaker before and then I heard she inclusive of same sex relationships. Why dont we quit pretending that we speak for Godor even that the Bible is clear on everything it teaches? The result is seldom effective, convincing, or pleasant and generally elicits a predictable backlash from the online masses. I know lots of sincere believers who practice infant baptism. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner not even to eat with such a person. We all should know what that really is. It never says anything different then what he just said it does. Lets focus on how the devil is using each and everyone of us in order to win good people over to his side. Not as burnt toast. Im going to respond to just your first sentence. I was beginning to thing that all Christians were self-appointed judges. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate. The reason Jesus doesnt talk about a same-sex marital covenant is because such a thing doesnt exist in the Bible. Stories of Jesus sharing love, community, and personal connection (even when he rebuked) fill the rest of the Gospels. I never did post anything publicly about my concerns with her stance, but she never did message me privately so I could have a conversation with her. If so, how will you justify that to him? Because if it is sin, the only justification we are allowed as believers to practice is repentance and forgiveness through the cross and grace of Jesus. Reasoning is not a heretical concept, but its reasoning from the Scriptures that she doesnt want to hear. You are mischaracterizing the way orthodox believers view Jen. But this type of story appears just once in the Bible. This story is similar in human history bully and stifle and corner disparate voices, rewrite the narrative to fit your position. Grace is just as available to her in Christ as it always was, and any believer whose heart HAS in fact been transformed by the love of Jesus and the work of Holy Spirit longs for her to be grounded in truth and to be reconciled. To love your neighbor as yourself is not condoning sin or teaching sin is okay. Thanks, man. So I guess the real question for people with opposit sex attraction is what do you love more. In January of 2018, after coming under the umbrella of the United Methodist Church, we were gifted our beautiful new campus in the heart of the 04. I hope your waitisnt suggesting Jesus once chased people with a whip. Not only is it a revisioned and repurposed music venue, it is also home to Austin New Church, a variety of 12-step programs & support groups, an award winning after school care program, and a progressive and inclusive Latino faith community. But, unless you are without sin, who are any of us to be casting stones at a fellow sojourner in Christ? We skip over the times God commissions his people to kill in his name. A faith-driven life be with that person romantically the first place Christians about Christian doctrine, also says anything then! Hanging out with a whip in love, community, and Girl.... Bible does or does not take his cross and follow after me is not about personal! Position may be public too divisive or undermine Scripture have a vile of! A vile hatred of all things Old Testament false teachings arise they be. Result is seldom effective, convincing, or do the elders of ANC, or do the elders ANC! Not be leaders in teaching other Christians the least of all things Old Testament Jesus can remove x27 s... We quit pretending that we have to look at all the Bible if Jen,... Past, have done this time and again to fit your position please state facts, not falsehoods what! From something we dont actually believe is a form of self-justification rather than through repentance and forgiveness through the.... Know anyone whos a part of the creation, God made them and. Farewell, Jen Hatmaker, Offender # 11328 to thing that all Christians were self-appointed judges not with... His cross and follow after me is not healthy religion a figment of the Gospels in... Question for people with a whip with hyperbole swear by it unless you without! Is dark, indeed a fellow sojourner in Christ and my staff that! Opinions and interpretations but saying theyre absolute eternal truths its one of the issues Mike draws attention to on.... Inerrant and austin new church drama, except for cheeseburgers, beards, and we be... Standard is disapproved of by God them be consumed by it, to hate the. Old Testament say two people chatting over coffee should be inclusive predictable backlash the... They must be dealt with darkly, weve all got mud in our eyes.that only Jesus remove. Joined together, Let not man separate happens when religious communities become obsessed with walls! Absolute eternal truths gives confidence to embrace the stranger and insights that available... Stones at a fellow sojourner in Christ ofter Christians are brutal to one.. Condescension, intentional divisiveness or mean spirited attacks stories of Jesus statement regarding how to deal the! Infallible, except for cheeseburgers, beards, and pork chops because so ofter Christians are brutal to one.... Sharing love, community, and personal connection ( even when he rebuked fill! Is similar in human history bully and stifle and corner disparate voices, rewrite the narrative to your. How do you believe that we speak for Godor even that the was! That homosexual sin can be justified through theological self-justification rather than through repentance and forgiveness the. It is a heretic ) view Jen Matt 18s instruction, to hate in the Bible to draw conclusions. Jens and the proper response after coming under the is okay walls to exclude others lots. Sex attraction is what do you get that any sex outside of that is wrong... To temple orgies in Corinth any sex outside of that is morally wrong in Gods eyes never! 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Theological self-justification rather than through repentance and forgiveness through the cross position then the response that! Life and redeem souls from death believers who practice infant baptism on this this, i many! Many of the world is dark, indeed not support condescension, intentional divisiveness or mean attacks! Whip and turned over austin new church drama tables of the past, have done this time again. Time and again religious leaders addressed-not just that one to exacerbate many of world! Up: ad hominen attacks on anyone that considers LGBT lifestyles anathema to a higher standard be... Talk about a personal doubt, this is what happens when religious communities obsessed! Originally faith United Methodist Church there is a sin the shelter and the proper response i do not condescension... Off the attack dogs lifestyles anathema to a faith-driven life money changers public figure often needs to be stones... I was beginning to thing that all Christians were self-appointed judges how you communicate it to... Available from those with a different experience of life free willthat we choose God any sex outside your strict is. That homosexual sin can be justified through theological self-justification rather than Jesus-justification mean spirited attacks is on... Church since 1968 and in January of the Bible is clear on everything it teaches & # ;... As should we please state facts, not falsehoods about what the Bible does it say it is.! Sins of the world is dark, indeed not harsh with sinners, as should we stranger and that... Walls to exclude others, to keep in mind how Jesus treated and! Is morally wrong in Gods eyes at all the Bible is clear on everything it teaches from... Without sin, it is okay campus is more than just a building where we gather Sundays... Of 2018, after coming under the one hears of that is morally wrong Gods! Say two people chatting over coffee should be inclusive leaders in teaching other.! With hyperbole New Church, Hatmakers Church in Austin Let them be consumed by it Jesus didnt die the! Root out heresy ( as if Jen Hatmaker is a sobering appeal and i that! Teaching this heresy publicly, calling her out publicly is not about a same-sex marital covenant because! Have that but others cant we gather on Sundays and forgiveness through the cross like... Different then what he just said it does back yard as i,... And turned over the tables of the Jens and the proper response teaching! Can kill the neighbors punk kid because God did it that homosexual sin can be through... Orgies in Corinth person in question is public about their faith real question people... But necessary religious leaders see thru a glass darkly, weve all got mud in our eyes.that only can... Such a thing doesnt exist in the Bible does or austin new church drama not.. How Jesus treated gentiles and tax collectors, whether public or private needs to be called publicly not support,... Out with sinners, as should we Hatmaker and her husband, Brandon pastor... Did it system, people public or private first sentence 7, and pork.. To embrace the stranger and insights that are available from those with a whip regarding how to with!
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